If what I have heard is true, Newslink newsagents are not required to return unsold copies of magazines. Entering returns data is all that is required for them to be provided with credits.
No returns processing in-store.
No freight shipping unsold stock back to the magazine distributors.
How would you like that fellow newsagents? Not having to return any unsold magazines? In my own situation, I would save more than $4,000 a year on freight and at least $2,000 a year in labour.
I suspect that my magazine cash flow situation would improve too since the magazine distributor would not be able to charge their usual returns processing fee they would take more care in determining supply. My guess is that this would see my magazine bill drop by around $4,000 a month without any negative impact on sales.
So, yes, I would love not having to return unsold magazines.
If my information is right and Newslink newsagencies do not have to return unsold magazines then why are other newsagents treated differently? If I am right, what will we do about it?
Of course, as I noted here in December, there is a question over whether Network Services can force newsagents to do full copy returns of non ACP titles.
Gordon and Gotch and Network Services ought to make a statement on this, so that all newsagents know the truth. I’d be happy to publish a retraction if my information is wrong. Likewise, I’d be happy to lead the revolution of newsagents if I am right.
G&G and Network should reply to this Mark but i would like to hear from the Federations as well.
If all this is true it would surely prove to be the final insult to the majority. We should all get behind this.
this is as outrageous as the supermarkets having the same return proceedures. we should have been acting on this long ago.
and yeah, where are the associations and ANF?
Not having to send back the returns would be fantastic.
Freight saving would be about $1200.00 per year for me and I am a small newsagent.
I could then spend the time saved on boxing and topping the returns, on checking out which mags I am low on and do extra orders. Extra mags distributed means extra money for NDC and GG.
Because of the extra time spent on returns, I regularly don’t see that I am low on a good seller.
Most newspapers were the same – no topping or bundling to be picked up, just count and throw out.
I CAN SURVIVE WITH JUST TOP 100 TITLES
Who are NEWSLINK. I have’t heard of them. Do they just stock a limited range like the WC duopoly??
European owned. Based at airports and some transit locations.
My guess would be that their point of sales systems accurately capture the sales data whilst minimising the chance of any data corruption – that is, the publishers ‘trust’ the integrity of the data and hence provide the preferential trading terms.
Publishers do not trust the data collected through xChangeIT from newsagents, and have to wait until the physical returns are received and reconciled. This process can take up to 16 weeks.
There is also the issue of newsagents using keying in sales instead of scanning every item. Again, leading to data corruption.
Fix the retail software systems and newsagent procedures and then you may get the same conditions that the supermarkets and Newslink receive.
Darren,
Newsagents have had Point of Sale systems which accurately capture sales for years so it cannot be that.
More than 1,000 newsagents provide timely accurate magazine data through XchangeIT to distributors.
Those points noted, distributors will trust what they choose to trust.
Good Point of Sale software captures hot key sales against the right issue so no problem there for the majority.
I doubt that returns are physically checked as you say.
I can only speak for the Tower software and note that there are no issues.
No, if what I have written is happening then it it is not for the reasons you say – although I’d expect the magazine distributors to say what you have said.
Either way, for those on Xcahngeit and full pos systems who pay there money to xchangeit, there should be similar trading terms.
This would also encourage agents to utilise the pos and xchangeit properly.
chris
reservoir
so what system is newslink using ?
Shaun, if I am right and Newslink stores do not have to scan returns this has absolutely nothing to do with their technology.
The fact that they are on different terms is the key with this thread.
Any system which is approved by publishers and distributors will do the same job.
What is of concern to me is the difference in trading terms! if this is proven to be the case then to level the playing field, all compliant newsagents should be on the same terms !
Chris
reservoir
Yep, newsagents on exchangit should be asking “What about me?” What does it take to get these terms. The returns are so wasteful in all respects.
Maybe and i wish this was the case, they are useing newslink as test pilots on this one and there are plans to make this the norm in the future ,hey one could only dream i suppose
I was told that GG can not even import XchangeIT data into their system. Mark McTaggat denies this. It would explain why they don’t trust the data.
I agree with the fact that it is not a data issue. It would appear to be a Newslink deal with distributors.
Chris
I agree with what your saying, but for one thing. Newslink and the supermarkets are corporates that own many sites. When they say that their data will comply, it will full stop. The distribution companies do not have to negotiate with 2000 seperate outlets who have all got their own ideas on how to run a newsagency. Compliance is the key and getting the herding up the mob and getting them moving generally in a westerley direction (Full Compliance) Is a job that many have tried to do and failed.
The difference is that companies like Woolworths, Coles and Newslink would have centralised stock databases which are effectively managed to ensure the captured data is pure and without corruption.
Newsagent data, with or without source from the distributors via xChangeIT can be easily corrupted. POS systems which have editable fields (i.e. locked), like stock description, stock codes, and barcodes fields can be changed at store level.
Unless the industry or marketing groups establish a centrally-managed stock database with stock files which cannot be edited at store level, then scanned data will always be imperfect.
The issue here is that the distributors receive sales data via xChangeIT that is less than satisfactory due to the above-mentioned imperfections, and newsagent practices.
Newslink’s software would have been tested to ensure the scanned data passed a sufficient benchmark.
This is not an issue about preferential trading terms. It is an issue about data integrity.
Darren
Bullshit!
Darren,
I am disappointed that you so ignorantly put newsagents down and appear easily led on the issue of newsagent data.
Newslink stores do not use XchangeIT. They count returns manually and enter data through distributor websites.
Newsagents do not need a central sock file for accurate recording of magazine sales. Nor do the field you note need to be locked down.
The magazine distributors established EDI standards years ago and the majoring of newsagents who subscribe to XchangeIT are compliant.
No, a deal for Newslink on not having to returns unsold stock, if true, has nothing to do with technology.
As an ex employee of Coles Myer as it was known at the time, I can assure that their stock integrity is not as good as Darren believes. I have no knowledge of Newslink or Woolworths.
Magazine distributors and some of their followers are too quick to say that the majors are better at data than newsagents. Next time someone says we should challenge them for evidence.
There’s an expression that (with certain business relationships) a customer/supplier has “one throat to choke” if they have a grievance/issue.
This issue IS NOT about technology. It’s about the magazine suppliers having one, senior, reputable(?), trustworthy (?) contact at Newslink who has convinced them that the Newslink processes are watertight and the Newslink data capture methods are also accurate.
This person speaks for all Newslink stores and the arrangement lives and dies with them.
As long as the newsagency channel remains a disparate, fragmented group of 3000+ owners (and there are 3000 throats to choke) you will never get the same deals as Coles, Woolworths and now Newslink.
I’ve held senior, head office roles at three national retailers (including 7 Eleven) before and after selling my newsagency so I’ve had a lot of experience dealing with large suppliers and how they think.
I’m not saying it’s right – in fact, it stinks and it’s one of the reasons I sold my newsagency in 2009. This is the way big business operates.
OK Mark, if you are in charge of a technology company and control a marketing group of over 160 members; then why haven’t you negotiated a similar deal?
But if we didntsend back our returns like good little minnions, how would the mag companys put out these bagged “2for” issues we all LOVE
so much..
Adam
Darren I am not about to be drawn into your agenda. Former is right. It’s how big business operates. To compete, we need to operate like big business.
Darren
Xchageit was developed and is owned by the Publishers/distributors.
In their eyes it is perfect and works well, with no data corruption.
I and others as paying customers believe what we are told by xchangeit because of their integrity. I beleive them so much that i pay them my account every month BASED on the data from xchageit.
So data capture from my system to ACP and others is as good as the data capture by newslink and the majors.
ACP etc think so too.
Therefore are you telling me that these companies are sending me corrupt data and inso doing charging me wrong amounts of money???
Because if they are then my rights as a business have been infringed upon, and abused by those controlling xchangeit.
Truly, and common sense must prevail here, you donot have to be einstein to realise that a deal has been struck behind the scenes by those parties concerned.
It has nothing to do with data capture, because MY DATA CAPTURE is as good as any!
Cheers
Chris
reservoir
xchangeit also scores us every month/quarter for ITC (integrity, timeliness and continuity) and even threatens us with higher fee if our data is not up to THEIR standards.
SO if according to them we pass (those that actually pass)…. where is the “manipulation” and corruption?
if data is so unreliable…then they can fucking stop sending me SBR (sales based replenishment) which is way off anyway or always late.
Of course magazine distributors will say that our data is not as good as data from bigger competitors. Where if the proof? I doubt it exists.
Well they cannot argue that line when they developed and control Xchageit.
Mark since posting this have you had any comment from the distributors one way or the other? It is a fairly serious accusation that should be driven to ground to find out if it is the case with Newslink and for that matter the supermarkets as well.
If there is something to this then it needs to be taken further as a matter of course. You ask what should be done? In my view this represents unfair trading terms directed at the largest retail network of magazines i.e. Newsagents. I don’t know how to take this further but my instinct would be to get legal advice from someone to see if there is actually a case to be answered.
This is most definitely not a software issue and can not be argued as one.
Chris,
I would be very surprised if Newslink were using xChangeIT for EDI data.
Mark,
I can assure you that there is no agenda here. I would love the industry to move to a pay-on-scan platform so my staff can do more ‘selling’ and less ‘administrating’.
I also champion for the industry to foster big business practices, but this would need a higher degree of compliance among the 4000-odd ‘managing directors’ that this industry possesses.
Darren,
See #20. I advised that Newslink does not use XchangeIT.
You are not championing newsagents by buying the line you have been fed by distributors about compliance. Newsagents are more compliant than they would have you believe. They need you and others to spread their spin.
Yes, there are non-compliant newsagents. BUT not as many as they and you would want us to believe.
Tower Systems has a robust and proven compliance program. This community represents the biggest opportunity for progress on this issue.
The biggest challenge on newsagent compliance over the last five years in my view is the several hundred strong POS Solutions DOS community. This is slowly being addressed.
Darren
Your interest in this particular post is suspicious.
This particular thread is not at all about compliance, it is about suspected preferred trading terms to a marketing group.
It disadvantages the majority and reeks like the trading terms that Coles, Woolworth have and it should be made transparent.
The distributors would go broke if they allowed the whole industry to have the same terms as the publishers will then be very careful on their allocations as they would not be able to offer their “bagged” reissue offers again.
Why dont you demand from VANA or whatever Association you belong to for the same terms instead of blaming it on Compliance or lack off it.
It was a simple post that was hijacked by your agenda or vendetta.
Darren
Even if they dont use xchageit for their data transfer, THE POINT is that i am COMPLIANT and I WANT the SAME trading terms.
Do you understand this?
The argument by Distributors that newslink is more compliant than me is BULLSHIT. DO you understand this?
I use a system called xchageit which the Distriburtors and publishers APPROVED, HENCE i am now COMPLIANT !
I want the same TRADING TERMS !
Everyone that uses xchageit and is compliant SHOULD have the SAME trading terms !
Do you GET THIS?
Because if you dont there must be something funny in the water near the Murray river.
Chris
Reservoir
Chris,
I would expect that a Director of VANA and the ANF (a conflict in itself),would keep the debate on a mature level.
boys, this is why our industry keeps failing; a VERY relevant topic that effects US ALL and we end up bickering over Agendas…….back to the issue;
Mark; you asked the simple question “What do we need to do about it?”
Angelo is right; we need Legal Advice on the issue to ascertain our next course of action.
The Associations need to put a letter together immediately to our distributors asking the question you have posed. Whilst everyone will not agree with this, i cannot see another alternative where a group can represent all newsagents.
The letter and responses need to be made public.
Whatever the decision is to move forward; you will have my full support on this issue.
Vaughan Lawrence
newsXpress Seymour
newsXpress Beechworth
Well said Vaughan. Lets all get behind this, it may just save our industry. As far as the bickering goes just remember boys “its a small shed, we need to pull together”
Chris just because you use their system doesn’t mean you are 100%compliant.I would ask the companies how clean your data is before throwing a tanti.No one in authority has said it is related to the data,you are just assuming.
No wonder us newsagents are still trading under such different terms to the big guys.We can not unite and act like adults until that happens this industry will never change.
Mary
My point being that it is NOT related to clean data or technology as i have said before and so has Mark.
By the way i dont throw “Tantis” .
I just try and tell it the way it is.
If you would like to talk more on the topic so as not to upset anyone in public then you can contact me by looking up our website.
Chris
Reservoir
Darren
It is at a mature level, its just that when you try and push your agenda i get the shits.
If i have said anything that is incorrect then please correct me.
Cheers
Chris
Reservoir
YOU LOT AND YOUR AGENDA if you feel someone has an agenda well just say what you really think it is and stop beating around the bush saying people have an agenda .
Personally i couldn;t give to hoots on who has any agenda or why but if you are going to acuse some one of having one at least say what you think they are tring to do so that way i can rest at ease knowing what is going on here 🙂
Mary is spot on. Just because you subscribe to and use Xcghange IT doesn’t mean you are compliant in the eyes of the distributors. Anyone who has ever missed Network’s ridiculous 20th of the month payment deadline (I assume that still exists?) is non compliant in the eyes of these distributors. I reckon most newsagents have missed this deadline at least once in the past few years.
I was a pretty switched on newsagent (I like to think) and watched my labels like a a hawk but there was invariably an issue every few months concerning short delivery, non delivery, excess returns, early returns, missing Xchange IT files etc. Each issue generated calls to the help desk (Ha!) and involved follow up at their end. They see this as a real cost to their business.
It’s not just about accuracy of scanned data. The decision behind offering these types of deals is about ease of doing business and ‘comfort’ of doing business. With Coles and Woolies the distributors know:
1. they will always get paid (I assume this is always within the timelines they have on their terms of trade)
2. Any errors will almost invariably fall in their favour (eg. late returns or missing returns, non deliveries never followed up)
3. They get very little calls/emails to their help desk (this is an educated guess based on my experience working for large retailers).
Therefore, it’s a calculated risk making a zero returns offer to “head offices” such as Newslink.
It pains me to sound like an apologist for the magazine distributors because I had great contempt for them as a newsagency – not so much Gotch but defintely RDS (RIP) and Network.
I agree that the associations should get a legal opinion on this but I think the argument (above) is a strong one for the distributors. Unfortunately the way the newsganecy channel has evolved over the years does not lend itself well to collective clout.
Poor leadership (almost non existent) at an association level does nothing to help.
Vic newsagents should be smashing the newly elected small business minister and NSW newsagents should start smashing the newly elected small business minister from Monday March 28th!
Former I disagree with your numbered points about the possible reasons behind Newslink being given those terms.
If I understand you correctly you are saying that in their (the distributors) eyes Newsagents are harder to deal with and take up more Help Desk time, less chance of claims etc. So therefore Newsagents who do try to get quanitites delivered and returned correctly should somehow not be elligible for the way Newslink process their returns? I can’t accept that and I dare say most other Newsagents don’t either. With respect to equitable trading terms how would this stand up legally if so presented?
If there is something more the distributors need to make us compliant then lets get it out in the open and give Newsagents the opportunity to get compliant if that is truly the reason behind this. I don’t for a second believe it is but if I’m wrong then we should be given the opportunity to be on the same arrangement as Newslink.
Personally I would love to find out how supermarkets, 711, Newslink and any other non-newsagents process their returns. I feel fairly certain they are not being hit with the same terms and costs us Newsagents are bearing. If, as you say we are doing it incorrectly then why should we be denied the opportunity to get it right in their eyes? I appreciate your view that this is perhaps negotiated between Newslink & the distributors but I can’t accept the reasoning for it.
I totally agree with you about lack of representation and the need for pushing this issue much furher the situation needs to be confirmed first. I’m not a member either the ANF or NANA but what will it take to get a Bill Express type effort from them if this is true?
By the way, I have no agenda. I am just over this preferential treatment of supermarkets, Newslink and any other organisation over Newsagents who have been taking it between the cheeks from some distributors for too long.
I agree, Distributors need to make a statement that is transparent about this issue and then after the Associations have received a reply they should then take it from their to negotiate the same terms and conditions. So I guess we all have written to our Associations.
Shaun – I am not going to embarass someone publicly about agenda’s, The VANA elections are over now.
i just hate it when you think someone has an agenda but no one has ever got the you know whats to say what they think the little hidden agenda is .
I am not talking about Derek or anyone in particular just over all if you think someone is here trying to knock you down or what ever the situation then just say it .
Those who are not members of any association have no grounds to complain about poor representation from a national body. There is no doubt that they have not lead from the front and that there appears to be little, if any, inroads into this eternal problem.
Perhaps now is the time to put the sins of the past behind us, re-join and get behind our national association and push these issues. If we continue to look for reasons not to pay membership fees and not to belong to the ANF, then our position will never be any different. These are not issues for the various marketing groups, these are issues facing all newsagents equally and as such the best way to attack it and make changes is through one united front, and the only option we have that I am aware of is the ANF.
If we ALL join forces through this association then together we will again have some clout. Either that or we can continue to languish on the sidelines and remain irrelevant to those who seek to control us.
Glenn, I and perhaps all Newsagents have every ground to complain as it’s my business and my money.
I would love for the ANF to put the sins of the past behind them and show some action on this issue and others however this is something they need to show Newsagents they can do rather than taking the position of only representing paid up Newsagents.
The fundamental reason others aren’t members is because of poor performance and questionable practices in the past.
If this issue turns out to be correct and unfair trading terms are proven then let’s see either the ANF or NANA take up the issue and fight for Newsagents.
Perhaps then some Newsagents will come out and support them. To date the perception seems to be that Newsagents are the ones holding out on the ANF but I would bet a lot would join if some solid and successful representation was achieved in the first place.
Glenn I have given up on the ANF or I should say I gave up on them in 2009. They know about this blog post not only because they read the blog every day but because I know they have been told about it. What has they done? There is no point in asking because they will cave into the magazine distributors. They do it every time.
Mark tell me what you think we should do because I will do it. I am 100% with you on this issue.
If what I have wondered about the returns arrangements for Newslink is true then I say good luck to them for negotiating such a deal.
The only way newsagents can negotiate competitively and collectively with any supplier is if the party negotiating has mechanisms with which to drive compliance among participating newsagents. No industry association has this.
Now before Association types criticise this statement here (or privately as is more likely) I am not criticising their lack of a compliance mechanism, only noting what they, and most associations, lack to make progress on this topic.
A party going to a distributor offering critical mass coverage and compliance mechanisms ought to be treated by the distributor as they would a Newslink, 7-11 or similar. If a distributor refuses then we know for sure that there are two sets of rules and that they are being anti-competitive toward newsagents.
What I want for newsagents from magazine distributors is a fair and level playing field for the most important retail network for magazines in this country.
I cannot recall any newsagent association stating such a goal in recent years.
Its a bit like the chicken and egg scenario. I don’t believe the ANF have the resources or drivers to actively engage and take up the battle on our behalf. Certainly over the last few years they have done nothing to endear themselves to newsagents and encourage us to remain members – not that they have let us know about anyway.
But, in my opinion, if you have not been paying fees to them to represent you then you have lost nothing and, again, have no basis to whinge about the inaction of them or any other representative body. If, on the other hand you have been a paid up member, you obviously have every right, as well as many reasons, to grizzle loudly.
The ANF will only be in a position to show leadership and act if it has a strong membership base and the right people at the helm to guide it where the membership wants it to go. If there is no membership there is no direction, and I accept that there is a reluctance to rejoin where people have been burnt in the past, but unless we have some degree of faith and start to pull as one nothing will change. It is up to us as newsagents to support and drive our associations to push for these changes.
I am a member of the ANF, but have asked myself why many times over the last few years and considered resigning as I feel I have not got value for money from my membership for many years. The only reason I hang in there is in the slight hope that we can regain some degree of unity as an industry and tackle issues such as these.
Sadly, I feel that with the current sentiment there is little hope for the future of any industry association, and equally as much hope of getting a similar deal to Newslink. If anyone can come up with a viable and workable alternative I am sure they will be inundated with support.
Glenn as I noted, a mechanism of compliance is the key otherwise there can be no commercial negotiation.
Due to a precedent already set, the only way newsagents could make any progress at all on this, it seems to li’l ole me, is to be big enough to afford big law firms to start pointing fingers on your behalf.
‘Well, you’re already doing this sweet deal for so-and-so’, etc.
Im a little confused did you actually hear this return credit procedure was happening or just wonder if it was happening
Heleng…
If what I have heard is true, Newslink newsagents are not required to return unsold copies of magazines. Entering returns data is all that is required for them to be provided with credits.
Just opened a letter from followmont transport advicing that our transport cost are going up 19% due to the floods and cyclones etc hmmm what can i put up in price to cover this ? nothing
another slap in the face for returns
Still no response from the distributors? Hmmm. Also, has there been confirmation that this is the case, or is it still hearsay?
Seriously, if this is about compliance, then why are newsagents paying good money for XChangeIT? Although, one would ask oneself that same question every day, given the level of oversupply and other numerious errors (including problems some agents seem to be having with SBR) which continue to deny efficiency.
Interesting when the topic turns to lobbying via the representative bodies, Mr Samartis goes to ground.
Chris, as a director of both a state and national association (conflict aside), you should be presenting not only the views of those presented in this thread, but putting forward motions to your respective Boards to gain some answers from the publishers/distributors.
This is now YOUR agenda. Please put your solution for equal trading terms up for debate. This is what you have been elected to do.
Is this the same Darren who lobbied to turn VANA into his own personal marketing group?
If so, then I think Victorian newsagents spoke very loudly about what they think of you and your agenda.
Dean,
again, there IS no agenda. Your information regarding any involvement in either elections or marketing groups is sadly mistaken.
Gentlemen could we please keep this thread on topic?
Darren Tribe
You are a silly little spoilt child.
I dont go to ground. I just like to correct you when you froth at the mouth about things which you have completely wrong.
Follow the thread that has been posted and hopefully you can see your silly argument does not stand up.
Cheers
Chris
Darren,
Having just re-read your blog from October, I must apologise, it isn’t a marketing group, it is a shared services model. Either way, whoopee-doo.
It was very clear that you were lobbying for Trevor Mason though.
I don’t see how you could possibly argue that you don’t have an agenda.
Dean,
and just WHAT IS that agenda exactly?
Please explain, because I didn’t know that I actually HAD AN AGENDA.
Chris, your accusations and language are disappointing for an person who holds a directorship. I suggest you lose the ‘Mark Latham’ persona and start represnting the people who elected you.
Both of you are derailing mature debate of which is a critical topic in this industry today.
64 posts,name calling and honestly a whole lot of crap and we dont even know if the original claim is true or not…is it true or not does anyone know?
Helen, as an outside spectator, I find this thread really entertaining.
I’m gonna go grab a chair and some popcorn.
If my child acted like you idiots i would kick her in the ass !!! Stick to the point. Is newslink supposedly doing this ? if so, why ? And what can us newsagents do to get the same outcome?
I am confident in my information that for Network, Newslink stores are not required to return unsold magazines but that for Gotch they are required to return unsold stock. I do not expect Newslink or the distributors to confirm this however.
This is a different Chris to the above posts, and I have posted on numerous occasions, that our local sub-agent BiLo supermarket have not had to return tops or fulls for nearly 6 months. And this is direct from the horses mouth.. And have seen personally the mags dumped in the bin outside for the public to avail!! Nice to know my comments have gone under the radar
chris (69), you have not gone unnoticed. I have seen many posts/comments regarding supermarkets not having to return stock to get credits, but this is the first I have heard of a newsagency (group) being given the same, inequal opportunities afforded to the big supermarkets. Of course, it is despicable that any magazine retailer is given different rights (or competitive advantages) to another magazine retailer.
Mark, Of course, you are right, neither Newslink nor the distributors will ever confirm this. But there’s nothing more comforting than cold, hard facts.
So, what do we do about it? Can we act independently or do we have to rely on the industry representative agencies to get to the bottom of this?
How can we expect “industry representative agencies” to act on our behalf when they have failed so miserably in the past on almost every industry-wide issue they have been presented with.
Like others, I have remained a member of both the state and federal organisations in the belief that, despite their blunders and ineptness in the past, they may actually get off their dot one day and do something for the members but that has become a hopeless dream tempered with the reality that there is too much swill in the trough for these guys to even think of extracting their snouts (for other than a collective bum-sniffing exercise) to help their members.
So why would taking action on this issue be any different for them? They rely so heavily on “sponsorship” from the magazine distributors taht to even broach the subject with them would invoke nightmares!
This is clearly an issue that the ACCC and class-action lawyers could have a field day with – unfortunately the only way they will get to hear of it is via this blog.
If the story is correct then this issue has nothing to do with compliance or data integrity as some have suggested (and if you believe it does then come down to the bottom of the garden with me and play with the fairies) – it is all about magazine distributors playing favourites yet again, just as they do with the supermarkets, knowing that our weak industry organisations will fall over themselves getting to the back of the queue to complain.
Ladies and Gentlemen, we are being screwed yet again and Chris from Reservoir and Derek have hit the nail on the head – it is bullshit and about time the apologists for the associations took their leave and snuggled back into their feathered nests,
I will back the quality of my sales data any day, despite having the ability to change things if I wish – a first year programmer could soon create a data integrity checker that would measure just how compliant I am against distributor-supplied criteria – if and when I am found to be non-compliant then put me back on returns by all means but until then, let me compete on level terms with those favoured supermarketsand groups.
This is not about “can’t be done”, this is about “not wanting to be done”.
ANF we are still waiting for a comment from you ………………………………….
Surely its as simple as President of NANA et al, and ANF phoning NDC and GG and asking and advising us of outcome? Why hasnt this been done?
just now i have sent an email to ANF pointing them to this thread.
let’s see if we can get a comment or the usual silence.
if not we should drive the issue via Alan Jones or Today Tonight and let them do the work that ANF and the State Associations are NOT doing… Just an idea.. (apart from lobbying our ministers of course).
I don’t find it okay to continually bash the representative bodies in the head about this issue; and use history continually to justify the bashing.
Has anyone being critical of the Associations actually picked up the phone and rang their representative body and asked the question??
I contacted VANA the day this thread was made public; i know they have contacted The ANF to follow it up with the distributors; what the outcome of any letter or phone call will ultimately decide what newsagents do from that point. (refer to post #37)
The Associations should also publicly acknowledge this thread (blog) for the information.
I have also advised Mark that this was my course of action.
Our representative bodies will be judged by what outcome they achieve on this issue; bashing them around the head for something that has only just been made public is a little unfair.
I suggest you pick up the phone and give you State Association a call.
I think Vaughan is spot on!
Admittedley I have been hesitant to call either national or state bodies but I feel so strongly about this issue that I will make a call.
Jarryd, what is the returns process with the supermarket you work with?
G’uday alll;,
why don’t our associations run a blog so we air disscuss and see action on issues affecing us.
To be fair, what can the associations do? If you want then to negotiate a deal on behalf of all newsagents they they will want all newsagents to be members, there would need to be a collective bargaining sign up, the distributors would need to agree and – and this is the BIG one – there would have to be something delivered for newsagents to get what Newslink has.
Newslink has negotiated as a high volume newsagency chain with a single accounts department paying for all stores.
Given that Newslink stores do not send sales data, it is the accounting requirement which gets them to the table that no association has any hope of getting to for newsagents.
I am not apologise for the associations, just acknowledging that they do not have the critical mass, leverage or compliance mechanisms with which to negotiate any commercial deals on behalf of newsagents.
That said, I think there are other ways to approach this.
To say that this situation has only just been made public is a bit wide of the mark. What has been made public recently is that Newslink are now receiving favoured treatment and terms similar to those the major supermarkets have enjoyed for ages, a situation that has never been adequately addressed by any of our representative associations in the past or, if it has, the efforts and outcomes have not been formally communicated to members.
History and results are what we all get judged by and on that basis how can any of the rank and file have confidence that this issue will even be addressed by associations let alone achieve a fair result.
Vaughan – you make a fair point re contacting the association by phone but I am still awaiting responses from both VANA and the ANF on a number of other issues so why would I expect a response this time.
Bottom line is – if it wasn’t for this blog no-one would be any the wiser on this issue and we would roll along oblivious to the fact that we are getting shafted yet again. Would VANA have contacted the ANF without pressure from members? And even though this blog has only been active for a few days, the huge number of comments alone (even though some of them are driven by other agendas) should drive some communication to members that their associations have it in hand but no – once again the silence is deafening!
at the very least, they should post here and acknowledge that they have seen this thread.
i don’t need immediate answers, just knowing they even bothered to say they read this thread is a start. like i said, i sent them an email with direct link to this thread.
gentlemen, the stage is yours.
So, ok, the industry associations don’t have “mechanisms with which to drive compliance among participating newsagents”. Who does? What are the other ways to approach this? Help me understand what I am supposed to be doing.
If marketing groups would be capable of handling this issue on behalf of their member agents, then where does that leave independents such as myself? I’m sorry, I’m getting a little frustrated here.
Surely through XchangeIT and other mechanisms available to the distributors, they are the ones to set and drive compliance. All that is needed is for them to set the standards (which they must have already done for the supermarkets, Newslink etc), Make them known to all newsagents and give us the OPPORTUNITY to comply ourselves. The associations and newsagent groups could then assist us but ultimately success of compliance is up to the individual store.
The first thing we need to know is what is required to be compliant and only the distributors can answer this.
on the topic of compliance…….
what is xchangeit’s ITC for if that is not for compliance. Why do they score us for pass or fail. why do they threaten higher fees if we fail their ITC.
if you look at the xchangeit it panel everyday, it will show you data we sent….. and it will show if we pass certain tests.
if their system say i am compliant…….then what more proof do i need?
i know not 100% are compliant or are set up properly.
But i am just speaking from perspective of someone who monitors these data report and the passes and fails process. don’t tell me i am not compliant when i do everything that is needed and beyond.
already made provisions regarding the stupidity of the handlers of the magazine returns…… i take photos of my returns….i write on the box that says returns forms are inside….i personally deliver boxes and take photos at depot. Guess what……they still say i infringe their returns process.
More on the compliance issue,
After much frustration and regularly being told I am not compliant for my Net returns in the form of an email saying my boxes are not labelled and the return form is missing, I have got somewhere near to the bottom of how this occurs.
It is based around the 30 day requirement between submitting returns by XIT and the returns being delivered to the depot. If after 30 days from submission of edi returns your physical returns have not landed at the depot (neither the returns for NOR the carton labels has been scanned at the depot), then an email is automatically sent saying your boxes are not labelled and returns forms not enclosed. The wording of this is far from adequate and causes confusion, but I am assured that it is being addressed and a roll out of the changes will occur sometime soon.
I have been caught up in this many times as I send my returns to the depot once per month, but sometimes that extends to between 31 and 34 days after edi has been lodged due to the way the days of the month fall. Whenever that happens, I get this non-compliance email.
So, it is not the poor employees in the depot as I originally thought, it is a shortcoming in Networks systems that have been leading to these frustrations – in my case at least. Again, I am told that fixes are being worked on and tested “as we speak”. Such occurrences some time ago were the result of incorrect date and time information in the scanners at the depot.
I have given up being concerned about so called non-compliance until such time as I know these issues have been sorted, as I know I am compliant and keep records to prove it.
Jarryd, What is the returns process for the supermarket you work with?
Do you send back returns?
Compliance is good and necessary however their is a big grey area where people such as me will never be compliant in some areas. However this post is not about compliance, its about fair, transparent and equal trading terms regarding the return of magazines.
Until we know the facts on how and why Newslink and the Coles and Woolworths types obtained there trading terms on returning of magazines or lack of returning we are starting to create a monster.
As you can see Wendy, myself and others are showing their frustration because the lack of information availiable regarding the return process’s of the above.
All that has been stated is that Newslink Network magazines do not have to be returned.
All I know is the magazine specialists (Newsagents) are being unfairly treated compaired to our competitors with the returns process,it is frustrating today and it was frustrating 6 years ago and I would like to know why and this particularly issue has got nothing to do with compliance.
In reply to Vaughan post #76, of course I have or I wouldnt have posted it!
I phoned ANF a little while ago to talk / discuss the volume of stock I received and the cost to return it all and was basically told, “well you signed a contract and they have XX million rent to pay”. I was dumbfounded by their response that we followed it up with an email. So dont assume we are just association bashing cos we are brutes! They have done next to nothing to warrant acknowledgement. Coming from a business background, if we didnt meet our KPI’s we were shown the door. (Key performance indicators set by customers and mgt). Why arent KPI’s set for them and if they dont achieve them they are gone. We need a strong representative body like Dairy Farmers have, the Pharmaceutical company etc.
I think that Derek is right. The deal Newslink has on not sending back returns is more about commercial negotiation than IT compliance. We know that they don’t send back sales data so there is no compliance there.
Newslink delivers Network something that they want and in return they get a break on returns.
There is certainly a question about whether newsagents have an obligation to send back full copy returns under their ACP contract. But that is best answered by a lawyer.
Wendy, your question gets to the guts of this. I think that newsagents will need to join a commercial entity, probably what you’d call a marketing group today, which is proactive in the magazine space and which delivers something which the magazine distributors want.
Received from ANF In their regular Email
“NEWSLINK MAGAZINE RETURNS
The ANF has been asked by members to establish the truth of the assertion that Newslink newsagents are not required to return unsold copies of magazines.
Understandably, newsagents are not impressed if they have to pay the freight to return full copies when other outlets do not incur this cost.
The ANF spoke with Gordon and Gotch who said this was absolutely not true. Newslink is required to return unsold magazines.
Network Services said that Newslink had to:
physically count and evidence their returns
lodge returns online.
Network commented that Newslink outlets only stock the Top 200 magazines, most of which do not require full copy returns.
Similar questions have often been asked about supermarket magazine requirements and it has been observed of late in that the person at the service counter of some supermarkets is busy topping magazines.”
This appears to be their reply on this issue to Newsganents.
The ANF is wrong to say that there had been an assertion. The blog post passed on what I had been told and wondered if what I has been told was true.
As for the broader response from the ANF, I wonder is that is all they said? If so then it is a poor response. there is no indication of what they could or would do for members. The ANF is merely acting as the mouthpiece for the distributors.
There are plenty of full copy return titles in the top 200.
This is not about tops or full copy though It is about any return. Think about how fast is is to just count versus, take the top off and count.
Newsagents deserve a smarter and more leadership focused response than this.
Peter – Thanks for sharing the information from ANF. Interesting that they use Netonline (Definately not about compliance then) and only stock top 200 titles, one can only wish.
Herewegoagain.
I am sorry about the treatment you received and felt when you contacted ANF, is that what you get from an association when you ask basically asking for help?
Yes Mark, a more leadership foccussed response is required, this is such a big issue to the Newsagency channel and could lead to solving oversupply issues.
First we need equal trading terms. Also we need to have responses from distributors on their aofficial letterheads and shared with its Members. I am sure all Associations demand this.
The below statement does nothing to answer the question at hand.
“Network Services said that Newslink had to:
-physically count and evidence their returns
-lodge returns online.
Network commented that Newslink outlets only stock the Top 200 magazines, most of which do not require full copy returns”
What does “evidence their returns mean”?.
The issue at hand remains at the forefront of newsagents minds right now.
Derek is spot on also; i want to see the reply from Network in writing, cause i don’t believe a word they say.
Further to this; i have spoken directly to one of my Major Sub Agents and they are also not required to send back copies (another National Account); i will be following this through to get an answer. i used to supply mags to the account and had to return everything; now that it is a direct account it seems the rules have changed very quickly.
Vaughan,
Well said.
The ANF / NDC reply raises more questions than it answers.
Should we write to our respective associations asking for the details of this? If so should it be a collective letter or should we bombard them individually? I would be prepared to pass this on to as many agents as i could.
I think we have enough details and enough of an understanding of what the anf will and will not do for newsagents. This issue has been an eyeopener for me. As a newsagent of 20+ years I feel more powerless than ever.
This is an interesting discussion and while some of the boys have got off track, the central issue appears to be that if we want terms like our competitors then we need to organise ourselves like our competitors. Is this what you are saying mark?
Mark
We need leadership on this issue, can you help start the revolution? Need to hear what you are thinking and how we can contribute.
I have received the following clarification from ACP today:
I can confirm that Newslink are required to process returns in store and freight their returns back to Network. This is applicable for both ACP and Network IP titles.
So Mark was the information you recieved wrong?
Publishing “gossip” isn’t always the way to go.
Mary, I stand by the questions I posed. I am confident that they have not been providing physical returns to Network for a range of titles. The Network statement issues through the ANF confirmed this.
After disscussions with a major supermarket staff on returns I got told they scan them in and then send to a central processing point (I assume their head office) who then pass it on to the distributors (one would assume all stores consolidated together). The term of “Evidenced returns” was used and it means if they are goining to get audited they are contacted and they then have to send in the tops. They send in Tops I got told on request once in every 1 or 2 months. I asked about fulls and got told they do not get fulls.
Peter
Mark
Thankyou for the feedback.
I guess its all in one’s interpretation, what you have shared from Network does not mention if they process full returns, maybe you can clarify.
Clearly this is an issue that is not transparent within the Distribution Industry and it is an unnecessary cost as we have an unfair return process for Newsagents & retailers.
If we only had WikiMagleaks to help us to achieve equal trading terms.
OFF topic but does involve returns , has anyone else found that on mondays delivery for GG there is a SH%T load more stock coming compared to any other monday of the month . I know mine is just over double what a normal monday delivery is . i don’t know maybe it is a one off but i am definantly subtracting mondays delivery from this months bill , they can feel free on closing my account as i could’t care less i am sick and tired of dealing with this bull every month .
Shaun
I agree with you 100%. I normally sell around 170 New Idea, on Monday I will receive 272. I will also receive 9 different titles I cancelled back in 2008/09. I also will be deducting these from this month’s bill as I have had enough also
shaun and DM,
i have been thinking roughly same way, i will withhold payment for blatant oversupply after cut off dates. they can cut off supply if they want. actually think having supply cut off for a week will lessen the junk i get.
i hope there are more of us who does the same.
we might be few, but maybe some other ppl will be pushed to their limits soon.
i have no probs paying for stock recieved up untill cut off for returns after that they can go on next months bill quite simple .
Just checked my deliveries for Monday – I reckon its 85 % GG and 15% NDC.
Typical GG. Stop the returns for the month on Thursday and then send heaps of unwanted stock on the last day.
Max, mine is the same i have hardly anything for NDC ( keep it that way ) they have actually cut my womens day back so i will order more monday .